honda batteries
How long are the batteries in a Honda Civic and Toyota Prius expected to last?
I heard 10 years? Anybody know anything about the longevity of the hybrid batteries…
No one really knows the longevity of the hybrid batteries. So far, replacements are very rare, in or out of warranty.
(Just because a warranty is up, doesn’t mean that the component needs replacing! You don’t replace the bumpers at the end of the basic bumper-to-bumper 3yr/36K mile warranty, nor do you replace the engine at the end of the 5 yr/60K mile powertrain warranty, so why would you replace the hybrid battery just because its warranty ends?)
Toyota warranties the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid battery pack) for 8 years/100,000 miles in the US. If you buy a 2004-current (AT-PZEV) model in a California-emissions state, the hybrid battery is further covered under the CA emissions warranty out to 10 years/150,000 miles.
Honda warranties the hybrid battery out to 8 years/80,000 miles in the US. If you buy an AT-PZEV model in a California-emissions state, the hybrid battery is further covered under the CA emissions warranty out to 10 years/150,000 miles.
These are full warranties (parts and labor), and NOT pro-rated.
And if your hybrid battery did fail, why would you replace the entire battery pack with a new one? Why not replace just the individual bad cells? Or buy a used pack (from a wrecked/scrapped vehicle) – they’re going for <$1000 on eBay.
To quote a Toyota press release:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20040623
http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2004062345528
How long does the Prius battery last and what is the replacement cost?
The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level – never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle. We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second-generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may be needed it won’t be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear.
Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?
Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 “bounty” for each battery.
But I’ll note that the Honda and Toyota battery management systems are different, with the Honda being a little harder on the battery…
Both hybrids are great cars. Nothing wrong with either choice. Take both for a test drive, and see which one fits you better.
Other than size (Civic is a compact, 2004-current Prius is a larger midsize) and styling, be aware that both hybrid choices are different. Honda’s IMA is primarily a gasoline engine with electric assist (the newer HCH II has little electric-only propulsion), while Toyota’s HSD is a full hybrid design that can be gasoline, electric, or a combination of the two. Some people like the simplicity of one hybrid design over another, but that’s a personal choice. Same goes for the instrumentation gages in the HCH vs. the touchscreen in the Prius.
Pricing wise, I’d say go with the Prius.
Toyota Prius, starting at $21,100: http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/
Honda Civic Hybrid, starting at $22,600: http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-hybrid/
even the US federal income tax credit for this Honda (new purchases only) doesn’t make up the initial price difference…)
Hybrids do cost less in the long term than their conventional counterparts. (Intellichoice used a 5 year ownership comparison in 2006) See http://www.intellichoice.com/press/Hybrid-Survey-2006 and http://www.intellichoice.com/carBuying101/HypeOverHybrids
While Consumer Reports in 2006 only found the Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic Hybrid would pay off within the same 5 year frame. The Honda Accord Hybrid, the Ford Escape Hybrid, the Lexus RX400h, and the Toyota Highlander Hybrid were also studied. (I’ll note that there was a mathematical error in the initial publication of Consumer Reports’ hybrid vehicle cost analysis, which a retraction was published later… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11637968/ ) Since this publication, many more hybrid models have become available, so I can’t use this to say about hybrids “in general.” However, in the US, the Toyota hybrids have sold so many that they no longer qualify for the US Federal hybrid vehicle income tax credit, but Honda and others still have theirs.
Check out the April issue of Consumer Reports if you want reliability information. Both the Honda Civic and Toyota Prius make their best bets for new cars and for used cars.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/top-picks-for-2007-4-07/overview/0704_top-picks-2007.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/used-cars/used-cars-best-and-worst-406/index.htm
In the US, hybrid models (like the Prius and HCH II) tend to be the best in fuel economy in their respective classes, using the same testing procedure to compare all cars (hybrid/gasoline/diesel/flex-fuel/etc.), and that is for BOTH highway and city driving:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/best/bestworstNF.shtml
2008 Toyota Prius: 48 mpg city/45mpg highway/46mpg combined, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/24882.shtml
Owners report average mpg in the mid-high 40s:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Toyota&model=Prius (remember that the 2004-current Prius are the same)
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/toyota-priushsd.html
2008 Honda Civic Hybrid: 40mpg city/45mpg highway/42mpg combined
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/24829.shtml
Owners report average mpg in the 40s:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Honda&model=Civic%20Hybrid (remember that the 2006-current model year are the same)
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/honda-civicii.html
Both are rated an AT-PZEV in CA emission states, so they have Super Ultra Low Emissions, zero evaporative emissions, plus a long warranty (10 years/150,000 miles) on the hybrid battery in CA emission states. (outside of CA, it’s 8 years or 80,000 miles (Honda)/100,000 miles (Toyota).) (The gasoline-only Civics are only ULEV in comparison.)
The Prius and Honda Civic are also in Kelley Blue Book’s 2007 Best Resale Value Awards: http://www.kbb.com/kbb/ReviewsAndRatings/BestResaleValueAwards.aspx (Though the Prius was dropped in the 2008 list…)
The Prius is also in edmunds’ used cars best bets list as well, and their lowest true cost to own list (2007 and 2008).
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/bestbet/articles/index.html
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2007/index.html
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2008/index.html
Both the Prius and HCH are great cars. But, only you can decide which will work out best for you. Take both for a test drive, and see which one you like better, which you like the seating better, and/or like the available options better… Do you prefer a sedan (Honda Civic Hybrid or 2001-2003 Toyota Prius), or do you like a hatchback (2004-current Toyota Prius)? Is a compact OK with you (Honda Civic Hybrid or 2001-2003 Toyota Prius), or would you prefer a larger midsized vehicle (2004-current Toyota Prius)? If you want a manual transmission, then you’ll have to look for a used HCH. Do you want to show off that you have a hybrid or not? The Prius is only available as a hybrid and its distinctive aerodynamic design gives it away, while the HCH blends in and looks like most every other Civic on the road…
It’s not that difficult to find a comparison site, such as:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?styleid=100943566&styleid=100920075&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=print
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